Legislature(1993 - 1994)

01/29/1993 01:30 PM House JUD

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
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           JOINT SENATE AND HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE                          
                        January 29, 1993                                       
                            1:50 p.m.                                          
                                                                               
                                                                               
  SENATE MEMBERS PRESENT                                                       
                                                                               
  Senator Robin Taylor, Chairman                                               
  Senator Dave Donley                                                          
  Senator Suzanne Little                                                       
                                                                               
  SENATE MEMBERS ABSENT                                                        
                                                                               
  Senator Rick Halford, Vice-Chairman                                          
  Senator George Jacko                                                         
                                                                               
  HOUSE MEMBERS PRESENT                                                        
                                                                               
  Representative Brian Porter, Chairman                                        
  Representative Jeannette James, Vice-Chairman                                
  Representative Pete Kott                                                     
  Representative Gail Phillips                                                 
  Representative Joe Green                                                     
  Representative Cliff Davidson                                                
  Representative Jim Nordlund                                                  
  Representative John Davies                                                   
                                                                               
  SENTENCING COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT                                        
                                                                               
  James V. Gould, Chairman                                                     
  Phillip R. Volland, Vice-Chairman                                            
  Dean Guaneli                                                                 
  Representative Fran Ulmer                                                    
  Duane S. Udland                                                              
  Bill Cotten, Executive Director                                              
  JoAnn Holmes                                                                 
  Gigi Pilcher                                                                 
  Honorable Beverly Cutler                                                     
  Honorable Warren W. Matthews                                                 
  Commissioner Lloyd Rupp                                                      
  Attorney General Charles Cole                                                
  Jayne E. Andreen                                                             
  John Salemi                                                                  
                                                                               
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
                                                                               
  OVERVIEW: ALASKA STATE SENTENCING COMMISSION                                 
                                                                               
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
                                                                               
  SENATE TAPE 93-3, SIDE A                                                     
  Number 001                                                                   
                                                                               
  Chairman Robin Taylor called the Joint Senate and House                      
  Judiciary Committee meeting to order at 1:50 p.m. and                        
  invited JAMES GOULD to convene the Alaska Sentencing                         
  Commission overview.                                                         
                                                                               
  SENATOR TAYLOR thanked REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN PORTER, Chairman                 
  of the House Judiciary Committee, for hosting the meeting.                   
                                                                               
  MR. GOULD reviewed the history of the sentencing commission                  
  discussing, including changes in the sentencing structure,                   
  whether to build more prisons, and whether to accept the                     
  present sentencing structure.  He announced that DEAN                        
  GUANELI, Assistant Attorney General, was going to summarize                  
  the basic thrust of the report as presented to the                           
  legislature.                                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 032                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. GUANELI reviewed information gathered by the commission                  
  members from other sentencing systems in the United States                   
  and concluded the presumptive sentencing structure in Alaska                 
  was a sound system.  He discussed the minor modifications                    
  recommended to the legislature, which included alternatives                  
  to expensive jail sentences.                                                 
                                                                               
  MR. GUANELI outlined alternatives such as imposition of                      
  fines commensurate with income, work service, or residing in                 
  a half-way house setting, being under intensive supervision.                 
  He explained why the commission has recommended the                          
  legislature change the term "mandatory parole" in the                        
  statutes to "mandatory release."                                             
                                                                               
  MR. GUANELI discussed the commission's recommendation to                     
  extend eligibility for discretionary parole to all Class A                   
  presumptively sentenced first offenders, except for those                    
  convicted of manslaughter and sex offenses.  He also relayed                 
  the recommendation that the legislature should expand                        
  immunity to probation officers in the kind of discretionary                  
  decisions they made in supervising people on probation and                   
  parole - to lesson the fear of liability.                                    
                                                                               
  MR. GUANELI concluded with a recommendation the legislature                  
  amend the DWI law and consider something other than a                        
  mandatory three-day stay in jail, but would be an effective                  
  deterrent.  He said that "swift and certain" punishment was                  
  important, and he spoke about the many people in Anchorage                   
  waiting to serve their sentences for DWI offenses.                           
                                                                               
  Number 254                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. GOULD explained most of the commission's recommendations                 
  would not require legislative changes but rather directives                  
  to the departments to operate differently.                                   
                                                                               
  MR. GOULD said the topic of alternative punishments would be                 
  discussed by  REPRESENTATIVE FRAN ULMER and DUANE UDLAND,                    
  who was representing law enforcement.                                        
                                                                               
  Number 268                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER began by explaining to the new members                  
  of the legislature why the sentencing commission was created                 
  nearly three years ago.  She outlined problems of                            
  overcrowded prisons, expending about $110 million per year                   
  to run the Department of Corrections, and the need to build                  
  more prisons unless something different was done.                            
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER explained it costs about $100 per day                   
  to keep a person in prison, and if the legislature doesn't                   
  want to build more prisons, more choices are needed.  She                    
  summarized the investigation of what was being done in other                 
  states and listed some of the alternative punishments:                       
  community residential centers where prisoners could earn                     
  money to pay their costs and restitution; intensive                          
  supervised probation in combination with electronic                          
  monitoring; day reporting centers, work release programs,                    
  and specialized alcohol and other treatment programs;                        
  increased fines, day fines, slide scale fines, more                          
  community work service; or using any of these choices in                     
  combination.                                                                 
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER explained the cost of the suggestions                   
  in relation to the cost of a "hard" bed in a prison and made                 
  some dire predictions about what will happen if alternatives                 
  are not sought.                                                              
                                                                               
  Number 370                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. UDLAND expressed concern that alternative sentencing                     
  might bring the accusation of being "soft on crime," but he                  
  believes serious criminals should be locked up for as long                   
  as possible.  He also thought there was a whole range of                     
  possible options to save money in the future using                           
  alternative punishment.  MR. UDLAND indicated his support                    
  for presumptive sentencing, but also favored alternatives                    
  that worked to deter criminal behavior.                                      
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN asked about the effect of alternate                 
  punishment on habitual offenders and suggested the system                    
  would be considered too soft on the repeat offender who                      
  might find jail too comfortable.                                             
                                                                               
  Number 455                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. UDLAND suggested a tour through the jails for those who                  
  think they are too soft, but he agreed that criminals resist                 
  rehabilitation.                                                              
                                                                               
  Number 497                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER reviewed a Federal Justice Conference                   
  on alternative punishments she attended where "boot camps"                   
  were discussed.  She stated that so far the boot camp                        
  approach has not been shown to make any appreciable                          
  difference in the criminals, except that they come out from                  
  boot camp more physically fit than before.                                   
                                                                               
  MR. GOULD reviewed the problems of data collection and                       
  introduced BILL COTTEN, the director of the Judicial Council                 
  to discuss the possible solutions.                                           
                                                                               
  MR. COTTEN addressed the lack of reliable information                        
  regarding the Criminal Justice System on which to base                       
  policy decisions, even though there are three data                           
  collection systems geared to the needs of the particular                     
  agency which maintains it.  He discussed the work done by                    
  the computer analyst for the commission, ALAN MCKELVIE, who                  
  has started taking information from the separate computer                    
  systems to integrate into a usable data base.                                
                                                                               
  MR. COTTEN expressed regret about the lack of a specific                     
  identifier for each offense and for each person.  He                         
  suggested reasons for having information with which to make                  
  informed decisions and to have the computers systems be able                 
  to work together.  MR. COTTEN reviewed the progress made by                  
  MR. MCKELVIE in coordinating the data systems and appealed                   
  to the legislature to assist in the continuation of the data                 
  collection efforts.                                                          
                                                                               
  Number 592                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. GOULD noted the high percentage of native offenders in                   
  custody, and introduced JOANN HOLMES and GIGI PILCHER,                       
  commission members, to address the issue.                                    
  MS HOLMES reviewed the statistics on native offenders which                  
  did not indicate a disparity of sentencing.  The commission                  
  members found that although natives make up 16% of the                       
  population, they are 32% of the prison population, and                       
  account for 41% of those returning to jail for revocation of                 
  parole, the highest number of repeat offenders.                              
                                                                               
  MS. HOLMES cited, as reasons, a lack of parole and probation                 
  supervision in the Bush as well as a lack of culturally                      
  appropriate treatment in jail, and a lack of treatment when                  
  released from jail.  She gave, as their recommendations, an                  
  increase in alcohol treatment programs and to get state                      
  agencies to coordinate their activities with village                         
  councils, existing tribal courts, and concerned persons in                   
  the villages.                                                                
                                                                               
  Number 647                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. PILCHER repeated recommendations from the sentencing                     
  commission to urge state agencies to work closely with                       
  entities already in existence, such as village councils,                     
  village or tribal courts, the elders, the IRA, and those who                 
  could provide information on the individual.  She stressed                   
  the need for the Village Public Safety Officers' program and                 
  the continuation and support of the Department of Health and                 
  Social Services' behavioral health aide programs in the                      
  rural communities.                                                           
                                                                               
  Number 677                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. GOULD introduced JUDGE BEVERLY CUTLER and JUSTICE WARREN                 
  MATTHEWS to discuss parole eligibility.                                      
                                                                               
  JUSTICE MATTHEWS stressed that the correctional system is at                 
  an emergency level with crowded jails.  He expressed his                     
  belief that, with an increasing population in Alaska, the                    
  crime statistics will increase.  He said the legislature                     
  will have to build more jails or make an adjustment in the                   
  correction and sentencing policies.                                          
                                                                               
  JUSTICE MATTHEWS presented two proposals which would not be                  
  a panacea, but of some importance.  The first would be to                    
  allow parole for certain first offenders convicted of Class                  
  A felonies, except for manslaughter or sex offenses.  He                     
  said two conditions would have to be imposed, according to                   
  the sentencing commission.  First the offenders must have                    
  successfully completed all court-required treatment or be                    
  released to an appropriate program.  Second, offenders                       
  should be required to serve one-half of the presumptive term                 
  before becoming eligible.                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 741                                                                   
                                                                               
  JUSTICE MATTHEWS said the benefits of the proposal were                      
  primarily financial, with the staff calculating it would                     
  save approximately "26 hard beds" per year, a conservative                   
  assumption.  He explained the cost of a hard bed is $30                      
  thousand a year and including other costs there would be a                   
  savings of $33 thousand on each bed.                                         
                                                                               
  JUSTICE MATTHEWS discussed risk levels and statistics for                    
  the parole record which he characterized quite good.  He                     
  explained the parole board has quite conservative standards                  
  about which offenders to release or parole.                                  
                                                                               
  Number 782                                                                   
  JUSTICE MATTHEWS then discussed the second proposal, a                       
  statutory change to allow special medical parole for                         
  terminally ill offenders, who can cost the Department of                     
  Corrections an extraordinary amount of money.  He explained                  
  why the parole board should be allowed to grant parole to                    
  terminally ill offenders who do not present a danger to the                  
  community.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 801                                                                   
                                                                               
  JUDGE CUTLER expanded on the role of parole in the                           
  sentencing structure, which should be the reformation of the                 
  offender and the protection of the public.  She explained                    
  the case law of the last 25 years had set out four goals to                  
  be considered by the sentencing judge: deterrence by the                     
  offender, isolation of the offender, rehabilitation, and                     
  reaffirmation of social  norms.  The latter was to reward                    
  people for following the law.                                                
                                                                               
  JUDGE CUTLER addressed the balancing criteria used by the                    
  parole board.  She explained why presumptive sentencing and                  
  parole eligibility were two different things, and she                        
  referred to testimony by MR. GUANELI to expand immunity for                  
  actions taken by certain state employees.  This would                        
  include the release and supervision of offenders on parole,                  
  probation, furlough, work release, or similar conditional                    
  release.  JUDGE CUTLER discussed the proposed changes in                     
  immunity law in terms of personnel and departmental                          
  liability.                                                                   
                                                                               
  SENATE TAPE 93-3, SIDE B                                                     
  Number 001                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. GOULD next introduced PHILLIP VOLLAND, Vice-Chairman of                  
  the commission, to make his presentation to the committee on                 
  the state budget and declining revenues.                                     
                                                                               
  MR. VOLLAND reviewed his background and discussed the                        
  urgency of the issues, using some comparative examples on                    
  how costly it was to isolate offenders from the public.  He                  
  reviewed  statistics about the capacity of the general                       
  housing beds for those serving their sentences, and he                       
  explained the other types of beds, medical care,                             
  administrative segregation, etc., are needed for a prison to                 
  operate.  MR. VOLLAND testified that half of those beds are                  
  being used for those just serving their sentence.  The                       
  prisons are over emergency capacity.  In his opinion,  in                    
  every single major institutions in the system.  As of about                  
  10 days ago, the system was about 80 inmates over the                        
  emergency capacity.  In his opinion the correctional system                  
  is in a crisis mode.                                                         
                                                                               
  MR. VOLLAND explained the problems caused when the prisons                   
  are unable to move a prisoner into a disciplinary setting or                 
  protective  segregation, making the prison a dangerous                       
  environment for both correctional officers and prisoners.                    
                                                                               
  MR. VOLLAND spoke to when the general recommendations by the                 
  sentencing commission to the legislature when dealing with                   
  additional legislation and issues arising in the future.                     
  The first was a plea to be aware of the impact of other                      
  legislation on corrections, such as those which would                        
  increase sentences or affect criminal procedure along with                   
  the costs of implementation.  The second point, according to                 
  MR. VOLLAND, was to appreciate the need for creativity and                   
  coordination among the various criminal justice agencies.                    
  He addressed the problem now being faced with DWI offenders:                 
  offenders are booking their time in jail 9 and ten months in                 
  advance.                                                                     
                                                                               
  MR. VOLLAND said there were enough DWI offenders on a                        
  waiting list in Anchorage to fill another Sixth Avenue Jail.                 
  He reviewed the DWI problems, stressing the part alcohol                     
  plays in crime and violence in Alaska.                                       
                                                                               
  Number 195                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. VOLLAND reviewed the material presented earlier to the                   
  Finance Committee and described a "collision course" between                 
  public safety and money.  He said that even the                              
  implementation of the sentencing commission recommendations                  
  would not impact the system for some time, and he gave the                   
  example of JUSTICE MATTHEWS' recommendations on parole for                   
  some presumptively-sentenced offenders.  The effect would be                 
  not felt for 4 years for an 8-year presumptive sentence                      
  (unless the changes were to be applied retroactively).                       
                                                                               
  MR. VOLLAND said if the economic picture gets more bleak,                    
  there would be some very tough choices to be made by the                     
  legislature, such as making all presumptively sentenced                      
  felons eligible for discretionary parole, re-examining                       
  sentence lengths, and redefining some of the conduct now                     
  considered criminal.  He opined there would be difficult                     
  choices to make from what was presently known.                               
                                                                               
  Number 248                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. VOLLAND articulated some of the frustrations of the                      
  sentencing committee on the time available for working on                    
  legislation for adoption.  He expressed their hope for the                   
  adoption of legislation to address the problems as                           
  described.  MR. VOLLAND assured cooperation from the                         
  commission members for any legislation.                                      
                                                                               
  Number 285                                                                   
                                                                               
  SENATOR TAYLOR asked MR. GOULD if there were any more                        
  presentations, and he said COMMISSIONER LLOYD RUPP from the                  
  Department of Corrections, and ATTORNEY GENERAL COLE had                     
  been asked to comment on the commission report.                              
                                                                               
  COMMISSIONER RUPP began by complimenting MR. VOLLAND on his                  
  presentation and expressing support for the sentencing                       
  commission report.  He reviewed the studies written about                    
  the current problems and mentioned Operation Hope.                           
  COMMISSIONER RUPP explained his department was one of five                   
  agencies working within the Governor's cabinet to try to put                 
  together a joint project approach, and to share the costs.                   
                                                                               
  Number 325                                                                   
                                                                               
  COMMISSIONER RUPP emphasized the need for immunity for his                   
  parole and probation officers, since he sensed a frustration                 
  with the handling of "technical violations" where a person                   
  on parole violates the parole.  There has to be a decision                   
  whether or not to place that person back into a very                         
  expensive "hard bed," and he referred to previous testimony                  
  from REPRESENTATIVE ULMER on the use of a community                          
  residential center approach.  COMMISSIONER RUPP expressed                    
  concern about the need to protect his staff when they made                   
  these difficult decisions, and he suggested a system of                      
  fairness and equity for all.                                                 
                                                                               
  COMMISSIONER RUPP reviewed the Department of Correction's                    
  final master plan (funded by the legislature) which projects                 
  a need for an additional five to 700 prison beds by 1996,                    
  and he didn't think it was unrealistic.  He urged the                        
  legislators to listen carefully to the sentencing commission                 
  because the number of offenders was going to continue to                     
  rise.                                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 431                                                                   
                                                                               
  ATTORNEY GENERAL COLE expressed his personal view on cost,                   
  which he doesn't think should be the principal factor                        
  driving the administration of justice and the people "caught                 
  in the web."  He urged the judiciary committees to draft                     
  legislation in furtherance of the recommendations by the                     
  sentencing committee and let it advance through the                          
  legislative process.                                                         
                                                                               
  MR. GOULD said COMMISSIONER RICHARD BURTON of the Department                 
  of Public Safety had been in attendance earlier and was                      
  supportive of the commission report.                                         
                                                                               
  Number 473                                                                   
                                                                               
  SENATOR TAYLOR said he had discussed with REPRESENTATIVE                     
  PORTER a decision to work together with committee staff to                   
  consider the commission recommendations with both House and                  
  Senate, with the assistance of ATTORNEY GENERAL COLE.                        
  SENATOR TAYLOR promised legislation which would follow the                   
  best presumption for success.  He said the committee would                   
  be working with GAYLE HORETSKI from REPRESENTATIVE PORTER'S                  
  office and KENNY LEAF from his.                                              
                                                                               
  SENATOR TAYLOR opened the meeting to questions.                              
                                                                               
  Number 498                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PORTER questioned both ATTORNEY GENERAL COLE                  
  and MR. VOLLAND about presumptive sentencing, and ATTORNEY                   
  GENERAL COLE quoted JUSTICE MATTHEWS, who explained his                      
  remarks.                                                                     
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PORTER asked both judges about the need for                   
  the courts to recognize the programs already available, the                  
  needs that were driving the commission recommendations, and                  
  whether there was a better way to emphasize the information.                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Number 523                                                                   
                                                                               
  JUSTICE MATTHEWS said the sentence of choice for a judge was                 
  still imprisonment, but he thought there should be some                      
  creative thinking used, and he used fish and game cases as                   
  an example.  He informed the committee of a program at the                   
  next Judicial Education Conference in June, where a large                    
  segment of the day would be devoted to educating judges                      
  about intermediate and alternative sentencing.                               
                                                                               
  ATTORNEY GENERAL COLE said it had been suggested there                       
  should be a meeting with district attorneys on the subject                   
  of alternate sanctions, and he described fish and game                       
  violations in terms of economic gain.                                        
                                                                               
  Number 557                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER noted a request in the judicial                         
  council's budget for a bench book for judges to give them a                  
  list of choices in sentencing.                                               
                                                                               
  SENATOR TAYLOR expressed pleasure at the alternative                         
  sentence recommendations presented by the commission and                     
  appreciation for ATTORNEY GENERAL COLE'S comment that cost                   
  was not the essential element, but the victim and the                        
  offender were the most important.  He decried the amount of                  
  money spent on paper work to send a person to jail, or to                    
  the treatment centers.  After becoming aware of these                        
  frustrations during his time on the bench, SENATOR TAYLOR                    
  was gratified to find people willing to take the extra step.                 
  He expressed concern that the recidivism figures were no                     
  different now than when he was a judge, and he reviewed the                  
  statistics in Appendix E of the sentencing report.  He                       
  condemned alcohol for most of the problems, and expressed                    
  surprise that the procedure of implanting antabuse was not                   
  listed as a solution.                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 616                                                                   
                                                                               
  JUDGE CUTLER said a lot of time had been spent considering                   
  the causes and treatment of alcohol problems in the                          
  offenders.  She said they did conclude there needed to be                    
  more alcohol treatment centers, since there was currently a                  
  long wait to get into such a center.  JUDGE CUTLER said                      
  specific treatment recommendations were best left to those                   
  with expertise in that area, however.                                        
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE GREEN appreciated the amount of information                   
  the commission was offering, and asked about statistics that                 
  would indicate the types of crimes by gender, age, or other                  
  factors.  His reasons had to do with the recidivism rate and                 
  educational programs.  He wondered why agencies weren't                      
  treating the cause instead of symptoms.                                      
                                                                               
  His questions were answered by MR. COTTEN who said there was                 
  some data by age, race, and gender, but not good information                 
  about who recidivated.                                                       
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked whether Alaska was considered a                   
  young state, and whether it made a difference in the                         
  statistics.  MR. COTTEN said he was correct, but the prison                  
  population was older than was commonly thought, principally                  
  because of the large number of sex offenders.  He predicted                  
  the prison population would gradually become younger.                        
                                                                               
  Number 681                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND thanked the commission for an                        
  excellent report, but wondered if some of the                                
  recommendations gave the perception the legislature was soft                 
  on crime.  He questioned how to deal with the perception                     
  problem.                                                                     
                                                                               
  MR. VOLLAND explained the commission had conducted local                     
  "focus groups" to ask citizens about the issues, and he                      
  discussed the questions and answers and finding from the                     
  focus groups.                                                                
                                                                               
  Number 721                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE CLIFF DAVIDSON, on the issue of presumptive                   
  sentencing, asked about the incarceration rate in rural                      
  Alaska.  He also asked about the fiscal notes that had been                  
  considered when presumptive sentencing was passed by the                     
  legislature and the relationship to the present situation.                   
                                                                               
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIDSON suggested the use of education as a                  
  way to work on the problems of alcohol consumption.                          
                                                                               
  JUDGE CUTLER said a study conducted in the mid 70's found a                  
  disproportionate number of natives represented in the prison                 
  population, and she said those studies led to several                        
  conferences including the 1978 Judicial Conference, with its                 
  education of judges about discrimination in sentencing.  She                 
  said there was apparently less disparity under presumptive                   
  sentencing.                                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 767                                                                   
                                                                               
  JUDGE CUTLER also spoke to the fiscal note question raised                   
  by REPRESENTATIVE DAVIDSON, saying at that time (late 70's)                  
  people thought there would be enough money for everything.                   
  She addressed the structure of sentencing and the early                      
  education about alcohol.  As a parent, JUDGE CUTLER was                      
  impressed with the alcohol education in her local schools,                   
  but she projected any noticeable changes for a future time.                  
  She was in favor of early intervention in all problems, but                  
  was mindful of the parental rights and gave the example of                   
  the Indian Child Welfare Act.                                                
                                                                               
  Number 797                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIDSON thought rural residents were at an                   
  unfair disadvantage when they were taken through the                         
  judicial system.  He claimed they were then exposed to "real                 
  bad characters," so the bad got worse before going back into                 
  the community.                                                               
                                                                               
  SENATOR TAYLOR said he shared REPRESENTATIVE DAVIDSON'S                      
  frustrations.                                                                
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JEANNETTE JAMES was impressed with the extent                 
  of the work done by the sentencing commission and their                      
  report.  She urged the necessity for prevention and asked                    
  for statistics on the present population in the prisons in                   
  relation to retroactive discretionary parole.                                
  REPRESENTATIVE JAMES wanted to know how many beds would be                   
  saved.                                                                       
                                                                               
  Number 829                                                                   
                                                                               
  JUSTICE MATTHEWS reviewed the assumptions and said 26 beds                   
  would be freed up right away, while other assumptions would                  
  provide about fifty more.                                                    
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER explained approximately 900 DWI                         
  offenders were waiting 9 months to serve their time in                       
  Anchorage, and freeing up to 25 to 50 beds would make a                      
  tremendous difference in the backlog.  She discussed the                     
  learning effect for the members of the sentencing commission                 
  in making hard choices.  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER wanted the                     
  casual drinker to think about the risk factor and take a cab                 
  home.                                                                        
                                                                               
  SENATE TAPE 93-4, SIDE A                                                     
  Number 001                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER suggested the public should be made                     
  aware of the trade off's in the acceptance of discretionary                  
  parole for some offenders.                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JOHN DAVIES asked how the commission's                        
  recommendations could be used to reduce the recidivism rate                  
  and to rehabilitate the prison population.  He suggested                     
  working toward a constitutional mandate for rehabilitation.                  
                                                                               
  MR. VOLLAND wished there was better data on the recidivism                   
  rate, but concluded there was very little information.  He                   
  quoted the commission as feeling the recommendations they                    
  made would have an impact on recidivism.  MR. VOLLAND                        
  discussed ways the recommendations would be able to change                   
  the immediacy and the effectiveness of sentencing.  He                       
  thought there should be continued study and monitoring of                    
  rehabilitative programs, but felt hampered by the lack of                    
  data.                                                                        
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES also felt it was important to have the                 
  data to evaluate the programs.                                               
                                                                               
  Number 135                                                                   
                                                                               
  SENATOR TAYLOR said he had been requesting recidivism data,                  
  and he praised REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES' questions.                             
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PORTER remarked the discussions always came                   
  down to alcohol, and he asked about the effects of the                       
  decriminalization of the former crime of being "drunk in                     
  public" as related to more serious crimes.  He was told the                  
  commission had not specifically discussed that issue.                        
                                                                               
  SENATOR TAYLOR reviewed a study done in Barrow about the                     
  effects of using an alcohol dry-out center, which was found                  
  to be successful until the "wrong" person was dried out and                  
  the center was closed.  He continued to describe the                         
  problems with alcohol abuse in Barrow and again suggested                    
  the use of antabuse.  SENATOR TAYLOR expressed great concern                 
  at the numbers of deaths related to alcohol.                                 
                                                                               
  Number 205                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PORTER returned to the subject of being drunk                 
  in public as considered to be a medical problem, and the use                 
  of "drunk in public" offense as a crime prevention measure.                  
  He said the number of victims were reduced, and he credited                  
  early intervention.  REPRESENTATIVE PORTER thought there                     
  should be a coordinated system to reinstate the drunk in                     
  public charge.                                                               
                                                                               
  Number 247                                                                   
                                                                               
  SENATOR TAYLOR spoke to the void in intervention in juvenile                 
  alcohol problems and proposed something be done in the                       
  juvenile justice system to react to the juvenile alcohol-                    
  related accidents.                                                           
                                                                               
  JUSTICE MATTHEWS expressed concern about COMMISSIONER RUPP'S                 
  expressed need for an additional 700 prison beds and early                   
  parole for serious offenders.  There was a discussion with                   
  MR. VOLLAND over the use of hard beds.                                       
                                                                               
  Number 323                                                                   
                                                                               
  COMMISSIONER RUPP explained the difficult decisions between                  
  the felony population inside the wall and the misdemeanor                    
  population outside the wall, but he stressed the consistent                  
  factor was alcohol.  He claimed that until the alcohol                       
  problem was solved, the rate of crimes would continue to                     
  increase.                                                                    
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIDSON questioned COMMISSIONER RUPP about                   
  privatizing Project Hope, and the commissioner said there                    
  were some aspects that dealt with non-profit corporations                    
  providing  services, which would be paid by the offenders                    
  from their permanent fund dividend check.                                    
                                                                               
  SENATOR TAYLOR expressed his appreciation to the sentencing                  
  commission for all their work and for briefing the joint                     
  committees.                                                                  
                                                                               
  JIM GOULD noted that GAYLE HORETSKI, a former member of the                  
  sentencing commission, was now a member of REPRESENTATIVE                    
  PORTER'S staff.                                                              
                                                                               
  There being no further business to come before the                           
  committee, the meeting was adjourned at 3:50 p.m.                            
                                                                               
                                                                               

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